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Marcus Brody
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jacob wrote:
only he succeeded in ALL BUGEI skills instead of just in combat


Heh, I'm not sure I ever knew that. Still, the only one that I'd really find that really useful for would be battle. Given the choice between that one and Bayushi 5, I'd take Bayushi all day long unless the character was specifically a general or commander of troops. Akodo 5 is nice cause it saves you from failure due to raises, but Bayushi 5 does the same thing while constantly assuring you get maximum possible raise benefit on every single roll. I'd call it a whole hell of a lot better.



By the way, who gets exploding sixes? That would be crazy.
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Bulkoth
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who gets exploding 8's and 9's for that matter aside from people with 10 in a skill?
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Jacob
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The biggest thing is that they are going to go first with an insane ammount of initiative and then utterly dominate with 2 attacks,


Not necessarily. Combat Reflexes Twisted Evil .

Quote:
they will disarm a person with practically not effort and the second they will do the utmost possible damage every time


Disarming is actually quite hard, as it takes three raises and you roll your your attack against either your opponents strength/weapon skill or whateverstattheyuse/weapon skill. So for the Bayushi to do their nifty end-holding-the-weapon trick, they would need 5 raises on your TN, an incredible +25 to your TN.

Even with your 2 free raises from the school and your air ring if they swung and missed you this turn, that's a lot of raises that aren't going towards the extra attack action or for damage.

[quote]half the difficulty any of us have in combat is knowing out own limits so that we have to raise ahead of time, they simply dont have that, if they had to spend void I could see this being ok but as is they are unstoppable. +5k0 on any reasonable rank 5 character let alone a scorpion is gonna have them at 10k10 for initiative or higher at which point they will start keeping +5's ontop of the rest.
[quote]

The Bayushi school is all about getting the drop on their opponents, there's enough fluf that I don't have a problem with them having a high initiative, especially with the combat reflexes advantage and tides of battle rules. that can change initiative order in a hurry.

Quote:
I don't even know what feint does, I would guess it's like full defense but doesnt take a whole round.


Feint requires a raise and you roll attack against your opponent. If successful your attack deals no damage but you gain a free raise against your opponent (two for Bayushi) that can be used in this or the following round.

Without Feint, the Bayushi are hard pressed to make the raises that they need, even if rolling 10k10 and being able to change the attack to a basic one (That would put most of your TN's over 60). SO they basically need to feint to be able to disarm, otherwise they just turn the disarm attempts into a normal attack.

Don't forget, things like Disarm and Knockdown (roll against your opponents (Earth+insight Rank)x5 ) are really tough to do, not to mention unconventional in a fight. This is what makes the Bayushi Bushi school unique.

Quote:
You yell at us all the time about needing to raise but this simply ignores that. When a die for us explodes 4 times in a row and we are amazed we don't benefit from it because the raise system in L5R is one of the hardest things to master about the system to become a good bushi, they just say fuck it and that makes them cheap. I don't expect to be able to beat every other school and I know Iajutsu is my thing but every one else plays by the raising system where you know your own limits or you fail, this just makes all that seem like some silly childs game we've been playing as the scorpions walk all over what ever the hell they want.


Every school has something that breaks the rules everyone else plays by in some way, I personally don't view this as bad as some of the other schools that noone's gotten around to playing yet.

Quote:
Given the choice between that one and Bayushi 5, I'd take Bayushi all day long unless the character was specifically a general or commander of troops.


Which is specifically what the Akodo train for, like Joe's Iajutsu thing, your school focuses mainly on tactics and troop movements.

Quote:
Who gets exploding 8's and 9's for that matter aside from people with 10 in a skill?


Much more than one other school, I'll tell you that ; )

Quote:
who gets exploding sixes?


Hiruma with Stealth and Hunting and Way of the Land.

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Bulkoth
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can see you have your mind set so I'm done arguing but let it be known I still think Bayushi Bushi, and the scorpion in general are cheap to the extreme.
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Marcus Brody
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Quote:

Given the choice between that one and Bayushi 5, I'd take Bayushi all day long unless the character was specifically a general or commander of troops.




Which is specifically what the Akodo train for, like Joe's Iajutsu thing, your school focuses mainly on tactics and troop movements.


I thought Akodo Bushi =/= Akodo War College in 3rd ed.


Regardless of archetype, I still think that Bayushi has the best set of school techniques of all the ones I've seen. I would currently be rolling 10k10+10 for initiative if I were one. If your kenjutsu is decent, few but the crab would be able to withstand your first two attacks without being so crippled that they could barely counterattack (since you get to add your damage raises after the strike).
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even a crab would likely be disarmed and or knocked down after the scorpion.
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Jacob
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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's very little chance of a Crab of equal rank being disarmed by a Scorpion.
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Marcus Brody
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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since they're both rolling stat+skill against each other, wouldn't the chances be pretty even? I guess the crab would usually have high strength, but the Bayushi's agility could easily be just as high.
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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They also get a few free raises on the crab and 2 attacks which are pretty much asured to be first.
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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Defender gets to choose Associated stat/Skill or Strength/Skill, so the Crab would get the advantage of whichever was higher. The first attack would most likely be a feint to get even more free raises and most of those would go to performing a disarm in the second attack for as free as possible, since adding to a Crab's TN isn't the wisest thing, leaving few if any for the contested roll against the Crab. Not to mention that knockdown is almost completely impossible to perform on a Crab, making one of the Bayushi Bushi's special attack things worthless =P.

Besides, if they're silly enough to waste an attempt to get one of those void points for The Mountain Does Not Move to get rid of a Crab's weapon, then they're going to get a horrible surprise when the Crab either punches them across the room (jiujutsu=key) or tackles the fuck out of them and starts a grapple. (again, bad times for anyone going against a crab)

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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We've already discussed Crabs being nearly unkillable outside of tricking them into seppuku, but other than Hida and Shugenja Bushi pretty much rock the bushi world that we live in, atleast those which we are allowed to play.
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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
We've already discussed Crabs being nearly unkillable outside of tricking them into seppuku, but other than Hida and Shugenja Bushi pretty much rock the bushi world that we live in, atleast those which we are allowed to play.


What?

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Bulkoth
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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry that was confusing.

We've already discussed Crabs being nearly unkillable outside of tricking them into seppuku. But other than Hida and Shugenja, Bayushi pretty much rock the bushi world that we live in, atleast those which we are allowed to play.

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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shugenja aren't part of the bushi world.
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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They rock our little bushi world.
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