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Silverhand
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really dont like 2, if your doing away with them, just make it 1, dont do the diminishing returns, that just seems pointless to me
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Bulkoth
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some situations are particularly heroic and require more than a single action.
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Silverhand
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is Ciel, not FIL. Completely different systems. I say one way or the other, keep them or get rid of them. Diminishing returns makes me think of Rick's strict rules on SW multiple actions, which I think suck.
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Bulkoth
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Diminishing returns makes me think of Rick's strict rules on SW multiple actions, which I think suck.


THAT MAKES NO SENSE.

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Marcus Brody
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think diminishing returns makes a lot of sense. If you're constantly pushing your plane through a series of manuvers and engaging multiple targets at extreme speed, it's going to get harder and harder to pull stuff off with all of your available skill.
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Dr. SexBot
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are going to do diminishing returns then you shouldn't charge people to take multiple actions. You should decide how many actions you want to take bassed on the penalty you'll suffer and the severity of the situation. I think there should also be ways to buy off the penalty with enough experience. Representing time put into getting better at doing things faster.

You could even make it a straight up bonus, meaning if there was a 0 penalty for 1 action and a -2 for 2, you would get a +2 for taking only one action and would be at 0 if you wanted to take 2 and so on and so forth with a bonus of 2.
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Marcus Brody
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr. SexBot wrote:
If you are going to do diminishing returns then you shouldn't charge people to take multiple actions. You should decide how many actions you want to take bassed on the penalty you'll suffer and the severity of the situation. I think there should also be ways to buy off the penalty with enough experience. Representing time put into getting better at doing things faster.


I believe I should charge them. If the first attack suffers no penalty, there's no reason not to try to take as many actions as possible. Since you don't have to be concerned about ammo, you may as well just fire away and try to hit a high roll. Everyone would be taking as many actions as possible every round, just because they may as well.
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Silverhand
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry for not making complete sense, its just when i think multiple actions I think SW multiple actions and the increased difficulty on it. It just makes me think of that and I hate that part. sorry.
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Bulkoth
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crit = 20 = always hit = why not take 150 actions.
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Marcus Brody
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bulkoth wrote:
Crit = 20 = always hit = why not take 150 actions.


Or however many actions are the maximum. Exactly what I was trying to say.


Taylor Durden wrote:
Sorry for not making complete sense, its just when i think multiple actions I think SW multiple actions and the increased difficulty on it. It just makes me think of that and I hate that part. sorry.


What I was proposing would be to take your full bonus on the first roll, and lose a bit on the subsequent rolls (0, -3, -6, -9, etc). It emphasizes that someone with many actions and no bonus would be twitchy but pretty ineffective.
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Jacob
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diminishing returns makes sense to me
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Raptor
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't really think multiple actions represent speed necesarially. It's more of a combination of speed and an apptitude for dealing with multiple tasks at once.

Think of it this way, anyone can take a single shot in a game of billards, but the really good players are planning 2-3 shots ahead of that. That's what makes them so good, they are looking toward the future, not just the now.

As for my opinion on this in game, I'm still working on that. I still feel that having more actions in a system where randomness is prominent is a distinct advantage. It's also not easily overcome by skill at this level. Most of us aren't doing much with a +10, but that what another action, on average, equates to.

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Marcus Brody
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raptor wrote:
I don't really think multiple actions represent speed necesarially. It's more of a combination of speed and an apptitude for dealing with multiple tasks at once.

Think of it this way, anyone can take a single shot in a game of billards, but the really good players are planning 2-3 shots ahead of that. That's what makes them so good, they are looking toward the future, not just the now.


Hence the related stats being speed and perception. You need to be picking out your next target even as you're engaging your current one, or anticipating the moves of the current one in order to line up a subsequent shot.
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Bulkoth
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I remember ORE had holes where multiple actions were conscerned, lets just ignore any thoughts of ORE and some of it's cheese.

Having a higher bonus would allow you to compensate for multiple actions but allow you to do better at a single action if it's more important altho I believe the penalty must be severe enough so that they are only used in situations where we are dealing with chumps or where we need to be truely heroic.

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Marcus Brody
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bulkoth wrote:
Having a higher bonus would allow you to compensate for multiple actions but allow you to do better at a single action if it's more important altho I believe the penalty must be severe enough so that they are only used in situations where we are dealing with chumps or where we need to be truely heroic.


So you're in favor of penalties on all actions in a multi-action round, like in L5R when you want to hit two people with one action?

That would be fine if I hadn't already made extra actions the most expensive thing in the game...

But I'm getting too tired to continue thinking about this for tonight. I'll assume there will be more posting tomorrow...
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