Ballistics and Self Defense

 
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Buck Futter
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only bullet you'll need for self defense.



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Marcus Brody
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Self defense to manslaughter in one easy bullet!
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Buck Futter
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it's been specifically designed for self defense. I'll penetrate light cover, but will fragment more easily on soft targets/fluids. It's a really slick projectile that has seen a lot of research and development.

Check it out here: http://g2rip.com/technical

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Raptor
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fragmentation is unlikely to make a round more effective. Penetration is the primary factor in a bullets ability to wound.
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Buck Futter
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Judging by the video above, I don't feel penetration is a problem. If I'm turning a gun on somebody, I want the effect to be devastating on the intended target. This is effectivly a hyper hollow-point.
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Marcus Brody
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buck Futter wrote:
it's been specifically designed for self defense. I'll penetrate light cover, but will fragment more easily on soft targets/fluids. It's a really slick projectile that has seen a lot of research and development.http://g2rip.com/technical


And the second a competent state prosecutor points out to the jury that you were using something called "RIP Ammo," you will have no chance at acquittal. Especially since -- as John said -- the fragments are only going to cause additional pain and wounding, and have little to no immediate effect in stopping an attacker.


I have a feeling this might go on for a while. I'll snip it off and make it a different thread.
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Buck Futter
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, I really didn't know where else to put this video. Then what's the point of using hollow-points? They mushroom and fragment. They cause more damage on the their way thru soft tissues and fluids. Am I thinking of this wrong?
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Marcus Brody
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buck Futter wrote:
Thanks, I really didn't know where else to put this video. Then what's the point of using hollow-points? They mushroom and fragment. They cause more damage on the their way thru soft tissues and fluids. Am I thinking of this wrong?


Kind of. There is a LOT of misinformation and mythology out there, and it's so prevalent that it kind of seeps into everything. One of the only real ways to sift out the truth is to start digging into things like post-shooting reports from FBI doctors/investigators and the like. Thankfully, John and I are ballistics dorks with a shared penchant for research and argument, so I can hit you with some useful bullet points (NPI):

-Knockdown power is largely a myth (yeah, I know we weren't talking about it, but it bears repeating). I won't say that a bullet impact will never stagger someone under the right circumstances (i.e. if they were tiny and/or off balance, and they had a vest), but if a bullet were enough to knock someone over, then it would be hard to stay standing when firing a revolver. This is actually a good thing, because penetration is what really matters. For a good demonstration, check out this crazy fucker:

http://youtu.be/UWNBV6ndmH4

-Anecdotal evidence from (iirc) the FBI states that a properly motivated attacker can keep fighting for a full minute after their heart has been completely destroyed by a gunshot. People frequently talk about the size of a wound channel and the "shock effect" on the nervous system from the wound -- I'm not saying there's nothing to that, but most of it seems to be speculative, and it's not a great guarantee of stopping an attacker.

I think a lot of the old wisdom comes from hunters, who have seen (correctly) that soft-nose ammo is better at killing animals than FMJ. However, the objective in hunting is to kill an animal (and if it runs away for a while before it drops, that's generally considered to be both typical and acceptable), while the objective in a self-defense scenario is to stop your attacker ASAP (and if your bullet does not, you have failed, even if they don't ultimately survive).

-The benefit of using hollow points is safety, not effectiveness, but they would sell like shit if people thought this way, so they're marketed toward the myth. While this is kind of perpetuating a lie, it's actually a good thing, because people should be using defensive/HP ammo. What the hollow point does is widen the round so that it disperses energy more quickly as it goes through the body. Thus, while it may not always stop inside the target, the projectile that leaves the target is far less likely to seriously wound a bystander. Likewise, they'll dump more energy while traveling through a wall if you miss, which is also good.

-In any case, the surest way to STOP (not kill, wound, or hurt, because those should not be your primary concern) an attacker is to damage the CNS, which means hitting the spine. Ergo, you need enough penetration to reach it.

I'm not saying that RIP is utterly ineffective ammo for self-defense. It looks like the central penetrator does an okay job, and it probably does get rid of some energy when the fragments break off. However, it has two strikes against it:

1. The penetrating part loses a lot of mass and width when it fragments, making a spine-hit depend a lot more on luck and/or perfect aim.

2. The only thing those fragments will do is ensure that your attacker bleeds out, even if given medical attention after the incident, which makes you look less like a law-abiding victim and more like a Rambo wannabe who's looking for an excuse to kill someone.
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Buck Futter
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess this falls under ballistics.


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