L5R 4E

 
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Jacob
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:09 pm    Post subject: L5R 4E Reply with quote

L5R Game Designers wrote:
The Rank 5 Technique serves as a capstone to what has gone before. Typically it adds one more pro-active ability and also awards a large conditional bonus (normally +5k0) to the roll for that ability. The conditions for this bonus are usually designed to synergize with lower-rank Techniques one of the better suggestions from our playtest teams! For example, the Bayushi Rank 5 Technique gains the bonus if the Bayushi has Blackmail on his target and the Rank 3 Bayushi Technique allows him to gain Blackmail.


Shocked
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Jacob
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Casting with Mastery is gone! Gone! Very Happy
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Bulkoth
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So shugenja are now completely and utterly useless in a realtime combat and only usable by the GM for plot?
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Jacob
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What a negative assumption based on a single line of text! I took a much more positive viewpoint that it will encourage tact and decision-making in spellcasting.

I don't have 4E yet, but I'm pretty sure Shugenja will remain useful in "real-time" combat as you say, and also very useful as NPCs. Also, L5R isn't *just* combat.

Mastery makes medium and high-level shugenja non-stop casting monstrosities in 3E. I am very thankful that Mark RP's the importance and divine nature of the spells and does not abuse the system. Allow me to explain:

I'm a rank 1 Moshi Shugenja. My chosen element is fire. My fire ring and void ring are 3. All my other rings are at 2

In an average day, I can cast 15 spells. I have 12 spell slots, plus 3 void points I can spend to cast extra spells. Potentially 9 in my element of choice. To make me useless in "realtime" combat, it would have to last for 15 rounds assuming I cast all rank 1 spells. If I was casting all rank 2, it would be 30 rounds, etc.

Further, I can meditate to regain a spell slot, or perform a tea ceremony to replenish my void points to spend on spell slots.

That's a lot of potential spells, but it still forces me to be cautious and judge whether the situation really needs a spell before I cast it.

Mark (and this is not a judgement on your play style, merely the mechanic, as I said before you're doing a great job with a broken system) almost *never* burns a spell slot, even when casting rank 6 spells.

Granted, that's because he is partial to creating monsters out of water that drown his foes, and that's just one spell that he can maintain.

Also, even at lower levels, he wasn't "completely Useless". If I remember correctly he'd cast a water spell over his hands and kick the shit out of NPCs with Jiujutsu.

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Bulkoth
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh sorry, I was confusing mastery with the one that lets you raise to speed spells up. If it took 3 rounds to cast a 3rd rank spell every single time they'd be useless. I withdraw my previous claim of shugenja uselessness.
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Marcus Brody
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bulkoth wrote:
I withdraw my previous claim of shugenja uselessness.


Nah, you were right the first time. Okay, done being an ass. Let's discuss this:


Quote:
I'm a rank 1 Moshi Shugenja. My chosen element is fire. My fire ring and void ring are 3. All my other rings are at 2

In an average day, I can cast 15 spells. I have 12 spell slots, plus 3 void points I can spend to cast extra spells. Potentially 9 in my element of choice. To make me useless in "realtime" combat, it would have to last for 15 rounds assuming I cast all rank 1 spells. If I was casting all rank 2, it would be 30 rounds, etc.


You're assuming the rank 1 shugenja has void spells. I don't think I have any void spells at all at rank (7? 8? Whatever I am). Also, you're assuming every spell is useful in combat. I have relatively few combat spells. In fact, I don't think I have any outside of water and earth (and the earth stuff only works where jade is effective).

Quote:
Further, I can meditate to regain a spell slot


Can I raise for more than one slot regained?

Quote:
Mark almost *never* burns a spell slot, even when casting rank 6 spells.


Actually, I usually do burn one AND spend void because waiting six rounds to get the water elemental out is just not a good decision. Even if I'm not hastening the spell, I often spend either a slot or a void point.

Quote:
If I remember correctly he'd cast a water spell over his hands and kick the shit out of NPCs with Jiujutsu.


Technically, I can do that, but I don't think I ever really have. I certainly won't bother now that it'll burn a spell.



I think the only spell I really cast the shit out of (over and over) is Path to Inner Peace, and being a rank 1 spell I don't think it's all that crazy that I should be able to do that at will.

Are they changing spellcasting in general? Because if other stuff in the system in changing it might rebalance a bit for me. Otherwise I think I'm going to be pretty hurt by this. Is there anything at all that lets you cast without burning a slot?
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Jacob
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marcus Brody wrote:
Jacob wrote:
Quote:
I'm a rank 1 Moshi Shugenja. My chosen element is fire. My fire ring and void ring are 3. All my other rings are at 2

In an average day, I can cast 15 spells. I have 12 spell slots, plus 3 void points I can spend to cast extra spells. Potentially 9 in my element of choice. To make me useless in "realtime" combat, it would have to last for 15 rounds assuming I cast all rank 1 spells. If I was casting all rank 2, it would be 30 rounds, etc.


You're assuming the rank 1 shugenja has void spells. I don't think I have any void spells at all at rank (7? 8? Whatever I am). Also, you're assuming every spell is useful in combat. I have relatively few combat spells. In fact, I don't think I have any outside of water and earth (and the earth stuff only works where jade is effective).


Void Spell Slots function as "Wildcard" spell slots that you can use to cast a spell of any element, and after you use them as such you can spend your actual void points the same way.

Marcus Brody wrote:
I think the only spell I really cast the shit out of (over and over) is Path to Inner Peace, and being a rank 1 spell I don't think it's all that crazy that I should be able to do that at will.


That's a spell that's particularly difficult and pretty broken. There's a lot of controversy about it within the community; that's why I houseruled a 2 dice max for healing instead of 1 for 1 per raise because that's just silly. It makes it *Much* better than the rank 3 spell Regrow the Wound.

Marcus Brody wrote:
Are they changing spellcasting in general? Because if other stuff in the system in changing it might rebalance a bit for me. Otherwise I think I'm going to be pretty hurt by this. Is there anything at all that lets you cast without burning a slot?


I don't have the rulebook yet so I don't have the answer, I'm just reading tidbits here and there about the changes. I'm sure they've tweaked more than just removing mastery but we'll have to wait till July 3-6 to find out!

Until then I'll be posting exciting (And spoiler free) stuff here. Please don't go looking for it on your own or you WILL ruin plot for yourself.

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