Secret Prisons and Torture now Illegal
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Jacob
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:50 pm    Post subject: Secret Prisons and Torture now Illegal Reply with quote

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/22/us/politics/22gitmo.html?pagewanted=1&ref=us

I'm pretty happy about that.


Edit: Article Summary: Obama wants the CIA system of secret prisons shut down. Also he is shutting down Guantanamo Bay. He is also disallowing the use of methods other than those already specified for the Military for getting information for prisoners. Also there's a stay on all court proceedings while they investigate.


Last edited by Jacob on Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:08 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Silverhand
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One, it wasn't secret, everyone knew it was there. Two, no one wants these prisoners in their backyard, except Murtha. He says we'll keep them in the district, but we have no prison for it so build us one. Three, no prisoner of war has ever been tried in a US court system in the history of our wars.

I'm all for them going in the general population of american prisoners, some shives will take care of this problem pretty fast. I'm not sure if they are martyred for that, but I am all for letting them live for years so they are not.

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Bulkoth
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
are martyred for that, but I am all for letting them live for years so they are not


That makes no sense. Regardless of what they believe they are not going to heaven for trying to kill people, that's just silly.

Also the Secret prisons referred to are not Gauntanamo, they are CIA detention centers which were hidden locations for high level terrorist torture and detention.

The Executive Order says nothing of trying these people in the justice system, they've stayed the military trials for now in order to get them out of that prison which has become such a blight on our foreign affairs. Once they are located elsewhere those who can be tried will and those who can't will be released.

I honestly believe this move is not a political one but more a necessity if our government is to return to the global stage as a light for justice and hope as we once were.

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Silverhand
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've just been bringing up all the discussions i've been bombarded with all day. I just heard that they were closing Gitmo and wondering what to do with all these prisoners now that no one wants them. They were going to put them in Alcatraz but thats Pelosi's district and she threw a hissy fit.
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Jacob
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I've just been bringing up all the discussions i've been bombarded with all day.


That's not what this thread's about. If you want to address a different issue than the topic, please start a different topic! You really should have read the article before commenting; or stated WHAT it was you were responding to, especially since:

Quote:
One, it wasn't secret, everyone knew it was there. Two, no one wants these prisoners in their backyard, except Murtha. He says we'll keep them in the district, but we have no prison for it so build us one. Three, no prisoner of war has ever been tried in a US court system in the history of our wars.


None of this is addressed in the article and it's pretty silly (without further qualification or context) as a response to what I posted. Perhaps the fault is mine for not summarizing the article.
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Silverhand
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't need a review of forum decorum. What I said was on topic chatting about gitmo.
Closing those prisons is directly related to us and Murtha as he is on the record as the only congressman who says that he will house these other detainees. Other congressmen freak out when you say to keep them in their district.
These are also prisoners of war and that was on line with that topic.
The interigation techniques that they are allowed to use now are in the army manual and I feel it is too nice to these enemy combatants.

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Jacob
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's the context!

Quote:
The interigation techniques that they are allowed to use now are in the army manual and I feel it is too nice to these enemy combatants.


I disagree with your view on this completely. I think that people deserve to be treated like people no matter the circumstances, and that confessions extracted by torture are worthless and merely an excuse to validate the accuser. Someone under torture will eventually admit to anything you want them to, so where is the justice in that?
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Raptor
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be completely fair:

Quote:

The order calls for a cabinet-level panel to grapple with issues including where in the United States prisoners might be moved and what courts they could be tried in.


So, that part is on topic.

Find a online copy of the approved techniques. I'd like to see what's naughty or nice officially.

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Jacob
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.kantor.com/blog/Interrogation-Techniques.pdf

I haven't had a chance to read it yet.
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Marcus Brody
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Closing big CIA prisons of which the rest of the world is well aware is great PR. I suspect the CIA will basically operate as it has been, with less factual reporting on their activities to the white house. You don't need a fancy prison facility to interrogate someone when any old soundproof safehouse will do.


I'm gonna read that pdf now.
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Jacob
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How'd you like the PDF?
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Marcus Brody
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Didn't read the whole thing, but the Procedures section was very interesting.
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Jacob
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There isn't a procedures section in the Contents.

I just read through all the Interrogation Process subset and everything actually seemed ok. Very much like what I imagine police interrogations are like.
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Marcus Brody
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's whatever chapter three is...let me check...


Yeah, my bad, "process" is the word I wanted.

And yeah, I agree. I was unsure about the whole "threats aren't allowed" thing for a while, but I suppose it makes sense to prohibit idle threats.
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Bulkoth
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/7/31/760402/-JAG-Wins,-Calling-Out-YooCheney-in-Court-for-War-Crimes-in-Jawad-Child-Torture-Case
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